Comments for five smooth stones http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com my postmortem life with Christ Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:50:52 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on David and Joab: Part 3 by Michael Montague http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-part-3/#comment-569 Michael Montague Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:50:52 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-warriors-part-2/#comment-569 I recently was enjoying the book of Samuel and a review of David's pre-kingship life. I found myself with many questions about David's activities. In many activities David did not show the grace and mercy apparent in other aspects of David's life. This is what David did while he was living in Ziklag, (I Samuel 27). He went on many raiding parties to nearby towns and killed every man and woman and took all the goods. No one was left alive that could inform on them, so by implications he must have killed the children as well. There is no mention of hostile actions coming from these tribal towns. I know that the societies of that time were much more brutal than we are, but even so, where is the mercy and grace? Nowhere is it mentioned that David inquired of the Lord before making these raids. Again, when he is told of King Saul's death, he shows no mercy on the young man, an Amalekite who tells him (possibly lying in the details) about King Saul's death. I see why the LORD denied him the building of the temple. Perhaps David is not a man to be admired, but a man to be pitied. Samuel anointed him, he walked with God and received direct and immediate answers from the LORD that enabled many military victories -- and yet he had a man killed so that he could steal his beautiful wife. He was such a poor father that his own sons pursued him to kill him and after his death his remaining sons struggle to grab the kingship. I wonder if we misconstrue the phrase "a man after God's own heart." I recently was enjoying the book of Samuel and a review of David’s pre-kingship life. I found myself with many questions about David’s activities. In many activities David did not show the grace and mercy apparent in other aspects of David’s life.
This is what David did while he was living in Ziklag, (I Samuel 27). He went on many raiding parties to nearby towns and killed every man and woman and took all the goods. No one was left alive that could inform on them, so by implications he must have killed the children as well. There is no mention of hostile actions coming from these tribal towns. I know that the societies of that time were much more brutal than we are, but even so, where is the mercy and grace? Nowhere is it mentioned that David inquired of the Lord before making these raids.
Again, when he is told of King Saul’s death, he shows no mercy on the young man, an Amalekite who tells him (possibly lying in the details) about King Saul’s death.
I see why the LORD denied him the building of the temple. Perhaps David is not a man to be admired, but a man to be pitied. Samuel anointed him, he walked with God and received direct and immediate answers from the LORD that enabled many military victories — and yet he had a man killed so that he could steal his beautiful wife. He was such a poor father that his own sons pursued him to kill him and after his death his remaining sons struggle to grab the kingship.
I wonder if we misconstrue the phrase “a man after God’s own heart.”

]]> Comment on Political Lessons and the Humility of Mephibosheth by Liza http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/mephibosheth-34705-35651-35578/#comment-568 Liza Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:37:24 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/mephibosheth/#comment-568 After reading through the article, I feel that I really need more info. Can you share some resources please? After reading through the article, I feel that I really need more info. Can you share some resources please?

]]> Comment on Political Lessons and the Humility of Mephibosheth by Dennis Nun http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/mephibosheth-34705-35651-35578/#comment-567 Dennis Nun Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:38:02 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/mephibosheth/#comment-567 I am leading an adult Bible study through the life of David and your summary of this chapter in David's life and his relationship with Mephibosheth was very helpful. But one point in the 3rd paragraph threw up a red-flag for me. You say that Abner was a "son of Saul" and that he "wanted to be king" upon the death of Saul & his sons in battle. But we read in 1 Samuel 14:50-51: 50 The name of Saul's wife was Ahinoam the daughter of Ahimaaz. And the name of the captain of his army was Abner the son of Ner, Saul's uncle. 51 Kish was the father of Saul, and Ner the father of Abner was the son of Abiel. NASU That would make Abner his nephew, not his son, wouldn't it? And the passage we read in 2 Samuel 2:8-10 reads: 2 Sam 2:8-10 But Abner the son of Ner, commander of Saul's army, had taken Ish-bosheth the son of Saul and brought him over to Mahanaim. 9 He made him king over Gilead, over the Ashurites, over Jezreel, over Ephraim, and over Benjamin, even over all Israel. 10 Ish-bosheth, Saul's son, was forty years old when he became king over Israel, and he was king for two years. The house of Judah, however, followed David. NASU This makes it clear that Abner didn't see himself as king, but made Ish-bosheth, Saul's son the king over the northern kingdom... and it was his objective to militarily defend that kingdom.. until we read in 2 Samuel 3:6-11 of the falling-out between Abner & Ish-bosheth: 2 Sam 3:6-11 It came about while there was war between the house of Saul and the house of David that Abner was making himself strong in the house of Saul. 7 Now Saul had a concubine whose name was Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah; and Ish-bosheth said to Abner, "Why have you gone in to my father's concubine?" 8 Then Abner was very angry over the words of Ish-bosheth and said, " Am I a dog's head that belongs to Judah? Today I show kindness to the house of Saul your father, to his brothers and to his friends, and have not delivered you into the hands of David; and yet today you charge me with a guilt concerning the woman. 9 " May God do so to Abner, and more also, if as the LORD has sworn to David, I do not accomplish this for him, 10 to transfer the kingdom from the house of Saul and to establish the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba." 11 And he could no longer answer Abner a word, because he was afraid of him. NASU Abner, was a great military leader, who served both Saul and his sons, but he was his nephew, not his son. I am leading an adult Bible study through the life of David and your summary of this chapter in David’s life and his relationship with Mephibosheth was very helpful. But one point in the 3rd paragraph threw up a red-flag for me.

You say that Abner was a “son of Saul” and that he “wanted to be king” upon the death of Saul & his sons in battle. But we read in 1 Samuel 14:50-51:

50 The name of Saul’s wife was Ahinoam the daughter of Ahimaaz. And the name of the captain of his army was Abner the son of Ner, Saul’s uncle. 51 Kish was the father of Saul, and Ner the father of Abner was the son of Abiel.
NASU

That would make Abner his nephew, not his son, wouldn’t it? And the passage we read in 2 Samuel 2:8-10 reads:

2 Sam 2:8-10
But Abner the son of Ner, commander of Saul’s army, had taken Ish-bosheth the son of Saul and brought him over to Mahanaim. 9 He made him king over Gilead, over the Ashurites, over Jezreel, over Ephraim, and over Benjamin, even over all Israel. 10 Ish-bosheth, Saul’s son, was forty years old when he became king over Israel, and he was king for two years. The house of Judah, however, followed David.
NASU

This makes it clear that Abner didn’t see himself as king, but made Ish-bosheth, Saul’s son the king over the northern kingdom… and it was his objective to militarily defend that kingdom.. until we read in 2 Samuel 3:6-11 of the falling-out between Abner & Ish-bosheth:

2 Sam 3:6-11
It came about while there was war between the house of Saul and the house of David that Abner was making himself strong in the house of Saul. 7 Now Saul had a concubine whose name was Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah; and Ish-bosheth said to Abner, “Why have you gone in to my father’s concubine?” 8 Then Abner was very angry over the words of Ish-bosheth and said, ” Am I a dog’s head that belongs to Judah? Today I show kindness to the house of Saul your father, to his brothers and to his friends, and have not delivered you into the hands of David; and yet today you charge me with a guilt concerning the woman. 9 ” May God do so to Abner, and more also, if as the LORD has sworn to David, I do not accomplish this for him, 10 to transfer the kingdom from the house of Saul and to establish the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.” 11 And he could no longer answer Abner a word, because he was afraid of him.
NASU

Abner, was a great military leader, who served both Saul and his sons, but he was his nephew, not his son.

]]> Comment on David and Joab: Part 3 by David W. Jessup http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-part-3/#comment-566 David W. Jessup Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:53:57 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-warriors-part-2/#comment-566 Possibly David found dismissing and thus disgracing his nephew - Joab - involved him in family difficulties. David's sister could have made things uncomfortable for him. Possibly David found dismissing and thus disgracing his nephew – Joab – involved him in family difficulties. David’s sister could have made things uncomfortable for him.

]]> Comment on David and Joab: Part 3 by David http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-part-3/#comment-495 David Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:54:08 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-warriors-part-2/#comment-495 Very much so! Excellent observation! Very much so! Excellent observation!

]]> Comment on David and Joab: Part 3 by Matt Pearce http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-part-3/#comment-494 Matt Pearce Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:31:19 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/david-and-joab-warriors-part-2/#comment-494 So curious this point you make about David's attitude begin pastoral, compared with Joab's militaristic attitude. Isn't this also so much like Jesus' attitude compared with that of his disciples, before they understood Jesus' purpose was not a military one. So curious this point you make about David’s attitude begin pastoral, compared with Joab’s militaristic attitude. Isn’t this also so much like Jesus’ attitude compared with that of his disciples, before they understood Jesus’ purpose was not a military one.

]]> Comment on The Absence of the Spirit by David http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-475 David Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:09:01 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-475 It's interesting to me that she, somehow, experienced a removal of the feeling of absence when she took a break in 1959. But whenever she was in the midst of her ministry in India, helping others...she felt the absence of God. Contrast that with Paul in 4 Timothy, when he was in the midst of his ministry and <i>deserted</i> by all his friends. Yet we read this, "At my first defense no one supported me, but all deserted me; may it not be counted against them. <i>But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me</i>(!), so that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that all the Gentiles might hear; and I was rescued out of the lion's mouth. The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and <i>will bring me safely into His heavenly kingdom</i>; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen." 2 Timothy 4:16-18 In the midst of the service of God, the people of God are comforted and ministered to by the son of God. Amidst hard time, his presence envelops them, protects them, and sustains them (Hebrews 2:17-19). Daniel, Jeremiah, Joshua, Paul...me, and you. It’s interesting to me that she, somehow, experienced a removal of the feeling of absence when she took a break in 1959. But whenever she was in the midst of her ministry in India, helping others…she felt the absence of God.

Contrast that with Paul in 4 Timothy, when he was in the midst of his ministry and deserted by all his friends. Yet we read this,

“At my first defense no one supported me, but all deserted me; may it not be counted against them. But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me(!), so that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that all the Gentiles might hear; and I was rescued out of the lion’s mouth. The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely into His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.”

2 Timothy 4:16-18

In the midst of the service of God, the people of God are comforted and ministered to by the son of God. Amidst hard time, his presence envelops them, protects them, and sustains them (Hebrews 2:17-19). Daniel, Jeremiah, Joshua, Paul…me, and you.

]]> Comment on The Absence of the Spirit by David http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-473 David Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:17:30 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-473 "That absence seems to have started at almost precisely the time she began tending the poor and dying in Calcutta, and — except for a five-week break in 1959 — never abated." “That absence seems to have started at almost precisely the time she began tending the poor and dying in Calcutta, and — except for a five-week break in 1959 — never abated.”

]]> Comment on The Absence of the Spirit by Val http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-472 Val Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:11:28 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-472 Feelings are not belief. It did not say she kept doubting forever. She felt a separation for a long time. There's a world of difference. Feelings are not belief.

It did not say she kept doubting forever. She felt a separation for a long time. There’s a world of difference.

]]> Comment on The Absence of the Spirit by David http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-471 David Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:58:51 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-471 Colossians 3:15 says "Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts...and be thankful." If that doesn't involve any sort of feeling, heart change, or attitudinal adjustment, I have no idea what that means. He promises this peace to those who trust in him for salvation. We <i>will experience</i> that peace if we just let him reign in us! In John 14:26-27, Jesus says, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful." But if we doubt God, relying upon ourselves instead, Scripture has warnings much more stern than anything I wrote... James 1:6-8 "... the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways." The core idea here is autonomy. If someone believes they can acquire salvation, please God, or remain in fellowship with Christ apart from complete reliance upon the mercy, grace, and lordship of Christ, they are doomed. If someone cannot sense Christ at work in themselves for, "nearly [a] half-century", they are missing out on this. Yet as the author tells us about this, he <b>commends</b> her for good works in spite of this...Christ <b>condemns</b> the Pharisees for the <i>exact same approach </i>in Luke 18:9-14. Colossians 3:15 says “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts…and be thankful.” If that doesn’t involve any sort of feeling, heart change, or attitudinal adjustment, I have no idea what that means. He promises this peace to those who trust in him for salvation. We will experience that peace if we just let him reign in us!

In John 14:26-27, Jesus says, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.”

But if we doubt God, relying upon ourselves instead, Scripture has warnings much more stern than anything I wrote…

James 1:6-8 “… the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.”

The core idea here is autonomy. If someone believes they can acquire salvation, please God, or remain in fellowship with Christ apart from complete reliance upon the mercy, grace, and lordship of Christ, they are doomed. If someone cannot sense Christ at work in themselves for, “nearly [a] half-century”, they are missing out on this. Yet as the author tells us about this, he commends her for good works in spite of this…Christ condemns the Pharisees for the exact same approach in Luke 18:9-14.

]]> Comment on The Absence of the Spirit by Val http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-470 Val Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:11:03 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/the-absence-of-the-spirit/#comment-470 Philip Yancey's "Reaching for the Invisible God". I'm sorry, but this post makes me quite upset. It's fine to have opinions, to believe your way is best -- but to criticize someone for not "feeling" properly? Heaven help us. And me, especially. Philip Yancey’s “Reaching for the Invisible God”.

I’m sorry, but this post makes me quite upset. It’s fine to have opinions, to believe your way is best — but to criticize someone for not “feeling” properly?

Heaven help us. And me, especially.

]]> Comment on A Not So Generous Orthodoxy by Wescott http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/a-not-so-generous-orthodoxy/#comment-427 Wescott Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:54:51 +0000 http://5smoothstones.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/a-not-so-generous-orthodoxy/#comment-427 Really enjoying the blog David! I wish i had time to track all the links but I don't right now. I started seeing a personal trainer this week...3x a week for 4 weeks getting in shape so I don't owe three friends of mine $200 each at tony's wedding in september. Pretty hard work but worth it. Great article on dating as well! Wescott Really enjoying the blog David! I wish i had time to track all the links but I don’t right now. I started seeing a personal trainer this week…3x a week for 4 weeks getting in shape so I don’t owe three friends of mine $200 each at tony’s wedding in september. Pretty hard work but worth it.

Great article on dating as well!

Wescott

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